I have not seen the Civil War movie nor did I read the Civil War comics that it was based on but I have read the Wearing The Cape series (by Marion G. Harmon).
In the back-story of his series, Mr. Harmon brings up an important point.
Super-Beings Are Potentially Dangerous both to the average citizen and to tyrannical governments.
In the comics, while "Good Guys" the Super-Heroes are actually vigilantes acting outside the Law.
If Superman, Thor, etc. actually violated the laws/rules that the police, the military, & the average citizen have to follow, who can "take them to task"? (Especially if the Super-Heroes have secret identities.}
In the comics, it is "simple". The Super-Heroes are written to be "Always Correct" so "Only Bad People Want To Control Them".
While it varies (by government) in the Wearing The Cape universe, to have a career of "Super-Heroing", there are rules that a Super-Being have to follow especially if the Super-Being works with Law-Enforcement.
In the US, you don't have to be "registered" as a Super-Being and you're free to live out your life as you chose.
Mind you, a minor who develops Super-Powers has to be educated separately from non-powered children. Considering how "real" children can behave, that is likely a good idea. :wink:
Of course, there will be people who after developing Super-Powers, who would continue (or begin) criminal actions.
But yes, the problem with the movie is a lack of "prudence" in the actions of the government.
Oh, The Major Problem (For Me) in the Movie is the Idea of putting the Avengers under the control of the United Nations.
No Real Government (US or otherwise) would allow the UN to have complete control of all Super-Beings. The United Nations isn't allowed to have military forces completely under its control so why would the US Government allow the UN to control the Avengers?
It does seem that most books illustrate the potential dangers with the supervillains, while the superheroes as you say need to follow a code or they basically become villains themselves.
(I have to admit that not having to worry about human-superbeings in real life is nice. ;P)
<I>It is also worth noting that a treaty such as the Sokovia Accords could be signed by the U.S. president but, unless it was ratified by a two-thirds majority of the Senate, it could not take effect and thus would have no power over any American citizen or the country at large.</i>
I actually noted this to my geek group when the movie came out.
I know Tony is....like PTSD as heck.. but wow, arrest folks now!
Yep, same. I mean, I can see the Accords being attempted, but actually being enforced stateside? Not without *a lot* of legal challenges, to say nothing of the sheer orneriness of the average American who would selectively not see something where something supposedly appeared. I'm sad they never showed normal people reacting to the Accords with, "Wait, what?! Can we at least sue the Secretary of State or stall him somehow? Maybe put up some legal roadblocks here and there?"
That's not even getting into the fact Ross locked up three Americans and someone presumably living in the U.S. legally without a trial or a phone call...
I'm having a lot of trouble sleeping lately (somehow, *after* the baby sleeps pretty well, I start having issues!) so my usual "think in shorthand and then smudge it" is even worse than usual. Besides randomly dropping words.
In the comic series, which further gave weight to the comic series, which included other series besides just the Avengers, that treaty had been ratified. While I personally agree with Captain America, I also understand that if this was based in reality, governments would not want an incredibly powerful group of individuals not under government control on some level. There are good reasons, and bad reasons for this, all of which kind of got touched on throughout the multi-series Civil War, but didn't really get touched on in the movie, for obvious reasons.
I have not seen the Civil War movie nor did I read the Civil War comics that it was based on but I have read the Wearing The Cape series (by Marion G. Harmon).
In the back-story of his series, Mr. Harmon brings up an important point.
Super-Beings Are Potentially Dangerous both to the average citizen and to tyrannical governments.
In the comics, while "Good Guys" the Super-Heroes are actually vigilantes acting outside the Law.
If Superman, Thor, etc. actually violated the laws/rules that the police, the military, & the average citizen have to follow, who can "take them to task"? (Especially if the Super-Heroes have secret identities.}
In the comics, it is "simple". The Super-Heroes are written to be "Always Correct" so "Only Bad People Want To Control Them".
While it varies (by government) in the Wearing The Cape universe, to have a career of "Super-Heroing", there are rules that a Super-Being have to follow especially if the Super-Being works with Law-Enforcement.
In the US, you don't have to be "registered" as a Super-Being and you're free to live out your life as you chose.
Mind you, a minor who develops Super-Powers has to be educated separately from non-powered children. Considering how "real" children can behave, that is likely a good idea. :wink:
Of course, there will be people who after developing Super-Powers, who would continue (or begin) criminal actions.
But yes, the problem with the movie is a lack of "prudence" in the actions of the government.
Oh, The Major Problem (For Me) in the Movie is the Idea of putting the Avengers under the control of the United Nations.
No Real Government (US or otherwise) would allow the UN to have complete control of all Super-Beings. The United Nations isn't allowed to have military forces completely under its control so why would the US Government allow the UN to control the Avengers?
It does seem that most books illustrate the potential dangers with the supervillains, while the superheroes as you say need to follow a code or they basically become villains themselves.
(I have to admit that not having to worry about human-superbeings in real life is nice. ;P)
<I>It is also worth noting that a treaty such as the Sokovia Accords could be signed by the U.S. president but, unless it was ratified by a two-thirds majority of the Senate, it could not take effect and thus would have no power over any American citizen or the country at large.</i>
I actually noted this to my geek group when the movie came out.
I know Tony is....like PTSD as heck.. but wow, arrest folks now!
Yep, same. I mean, I can see the Accords being attempted, but actually being enforced stateside? Not without *a lot* of legal challenges, to say nothing of the sheer orneriness of the average American who would selectively not see something where something supposedly appeared. I'm sad they never showed normal people reacting to the Accords with, "Wait, what?! Can we at least sue the Secretary of State or stall him somehow? Maybe put up some legal roadblocks here and there?"
That's not even getting into the fact Ross locked up three Americans and someone presumably living in the U.S. legally without a trial or a phone call...
(I mean unfortunately some real-life events show this kind of banana-republic behavior but yeah.)
:has a thought, watches first thing in detail:
K... flash of Hulk in New York....
Literally NOTHING else was the Avengers.
Just "bad stuff around them."
Mm-hmm. And we all *know* how Ross feels about the Hulk....
Psychology wise, it works even better-- because Ross sees him as a force of nature.
So NOTHING was the Avengers acting.
....so it was all aimed. That's... manipulation stuff.
And then he tries to pin not havign complete control over everybody on Cap?
Uh... that's abuser stuff.
*rereads comment, feels slightly confused* I think I might have misunderstood you the first time I answered. To which video were you referring?
Nope, you got it right.
Ah, okay! Thank you. For a minute there, I was worried. :sweat_smile:
I'm having a lot of trouble sleeping lately (somehow, *after* the baby sleeps pretty well, I start having issues!) so my usual "think in shorthand and then smudge it" is even worse than usual. Besides randomly dropping words.
:nods sadly: Tony *really* let Ross wind him up and drive him the wrong way, unfortunately.
In the comic series, which further gave weight to the comic series, which included other series besides just the Avengers, that treaty had been ratified. While I personally agree with Captain America, I also understand that if this was based in reality, governments would not want an incredibly powerful group of individuals not under government control on some level. There are good reasons, and bad reasons for this, all of which kind of got touched on throughout the multi-series Civil War, but didn't really get touched on in the movie, for obvious reasons.
Elkin recommended you; I'm glad he did.
I'm glad he did, too. :hugs: Thank you! :D